According to Lisa Pennell, the debate about women in leadership roles often misses the point, focusing on the wrong metric. For her, the key is “power with, not power over”. As the CEO of Barry Plant, she joined Samantha McLean and Chris Hanley in a conversation about leadership in real estate.
When asked if the industry needs more female leaders or more excellent leadership, Lisa deflected the question, stating that the focus should be on experience and capability, rather than gender. She believes that there are poor and excellent leaders of every gender, and that the bigger issue is unconscious bias.
Lisa took a Harvard online gender bias test years ago and was shocked to discover that she had one. She realized that, as a career woman, she had put pressure on herself to excel in multiple roles.
Lisa described what excellent leadership looks like beyond labels, stating that it does not have ego and is about “power with, not power over”. This applies to direct teams, customers, and stakeholders alike. She emphasized the importance of trust, which comes from repeatedly showing up, owning mistakes, and repairing damage when things go wrong.
Chris Hanley added that leadership is about mistakes and recovery, and that no one ever nails it. Lisa noted that new leaders often posture and pretend to have all the answers, but true leadership is about being willing to say “I don’t know” and learn from mistakes.
Staying Calm in a Turbulent Market
The conversation turned to the current market, with Lisa stating that most of the Barry Plant director group is calm, which is why the group is tracking well and growing market share. She emphasized the importance of staying calm in difficult times, as panic can spread quickly through a business and lead to poor decision-making.
Lisa’s biggest lesson as a first-time CEO is the need for support from outside the business. She has a therapist, a coach, and colleagues in the industry who she can talk to honestly. Her advice for anyone stepping into a senior role is to drop their guard, admit what they don’t know, and find people who can help them lead better.
Reversing a Half-Done Rebrand
Lisa also shared her experience with rebranding Barry Plant, which was already halfway through when she arrived. She realized that the rebrand wasn’t heading in the right direction and decided to stop and reverse course. Her advice for any leader starting something new is to ask a lot of questions, see what they’re working with, and adapt to what is in front of them.
When asked if women still have to work twice as hard to be considered half as good, Lisa answered candidly, saying probably yes. However, she noted that she has been helped more by men than women in her career.
Chris Hanley added that the industry needs to look after its young men better, citing the pressures of comparison and social media. He emphasized the importance of acting on bad behavior when it’s seen or heard, rather than letting it continue. Lisa backed him up with a recent example of her own, acting on a former star performer who was exhibiting bad behavior.
The Edit: Real-Estate Leaders Speak
Lisa’s conversation with Samantha McLean and Chris Hanley is part of The Edit, a series of practical and honest conversations with leaders in the real estate industry. The series explores the hard questions facing agents and principals, and offers insights and advice from experienced leaders like Lisa Pennell.
Lisa Pennell reports directly to the board, without a boss, day-to-day manager, or mentor, even as she mentors her own team. Three and a half years into her inaugural CEO role, she says the experience has taught her lessons many leaders discover only after reaching the top. She says that realization often arrives only after confronting the realities of independent decision-making.
She describes the moment of arrival as “I’m here on my own. Who do I talk to?” reflecting isolation felt once she attained the summit. Lisa arrived with one clear view: the brand looked extremely masculine. She noted the brand appeared masculine and was seen as a boys’ club, yet she discovered an accepting, diverse group inside the organization.
